Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy

I believe voter suppression is more than a simple political crime. I believe it is a crime against humanity. I've fought voter suppression, theft and fraud all my life. Working as a reporter and then as a Democratic consultant, activist and writer based in Texas, I've seen it first hand. I've watched my screams fall on deaf ears. I've lived with a culture that believes that as long as "the right people" vote, every thing is in its little hierarchical place.

It happens everywhere, but it a particularly Southern tragedy, and I can fully understand and fully support the outrage among African-American voters when they believe their voting rights are being trampled once again.

There's a part of me that believes the outrage at suspected voter suppression in North Carolina is healthy. There's a bigger part of me that sees too much vigilantism in the reaction to WVWV.

The first chapter of my book, The Politics of Deceit, opens with a tragic story from Ocoee, Florida during the 1920 election. When a young African-American named July Perry cast his ballot that morning, white racism turned to rage. Perry was shot, hanged and burned. Five hundred people were driven from their homes, which were then burned to the ground. Children spent the night hiding in trees of an orange grove. One of them, Armstrong Perry, returned for the first time 81 years later. He was 93. He said he could still smell the fire.

You can read a PDF of the chapter on voter suppression, "The Threatened Habitats of Democracy," here.

I know many of the critics of  WVWV take offense at being characterized as an unthinking mob. From their perspective, someone is trying to suppress the votes of African-Americans because those votes may help give the Democratic nomination to an African-American candidate. Whatever the facts of the matter, we will know them, sooner or later. It's the tone of the criticism that concerns me, the rush to condemn and convict. It smells like the Ocoee fire to me.

I don't know what the facts are. I am a committed supporter of Barack Obama's.  I have long sense abandoned any idealism that every Democratic candidate is above immoral and unconscionable acts, so I imagine there are supporters of his opponent who would try to suppress his vote.  WVWV made mistakes, mistakes that appear to have caused confusion and dread among the voters of North Carolina. The group also mishandled the press and the blogosphere in its reaction to the accusations.

But I still find it hard to believe that a group that has registered hundreds of thousands of voters and conducted similar campaigns in post-election settings that couldn't possibly suppress votes because the voting had already happened would engage in an overt voter suppression effort. If they have, it's the most sophisticated and intricate suppression plan I've ever heard of, complete with alibis and cover of an extraordinary kind.

Maybe it was simple ineptitude and incompetence. Maybe it was hijacked by a consultant who turned an otherwise beneficial program to bad purposes. I don't know.

Would I feel pulled toward such a patient withholding of judgment if this was a Republican group? Damn good question, and the honest answer is I suppose not. I simply know too much of the history of Republican efforts to suppress votes, right up through the U.S. Supreme Court's anti-democratic endorsement of Indiana's regressive voter i.d. law. There's nothing in the history of that party that deserves a benefit of the doubt on this issue.

But as long as facts are not ultimately suppressed, as long as we can get to the truth, I think we'd do the progressive movement a favor if we'd give at least some little room for one of our own to explain what happened, to correct any unfortunate mistakes, to admit wrongdoing if wrongdoing was done, to be punished or exonerated, whichever is called for.

I don't want brothers and sisters of our movement feeling like that need to hide through the night. It's the authoritarians and the bigots who do that sort of thing. We stand for something else altogether.

I have just finished a series at OpenLeft called "The Promise of Popular Democracy." It touches on many of these issues. It is about these issues, and I locate the ultimate human values and capacities that gave rise to democracy long, long ago. It will make clear where I stand on voter suppression. Each of the parts is lengthy, so don't expect a sound bite blog. But some of you might find the series worthwhile.

You can read the series here: Part I: Origins, Part II: Solidarity of the Shaken, Part III: The Promise.

I also recommend Mark Crispin Miller's new book, Loser Take All: Election Fraud and the Subversion of Democracy, 200-2008.

For those who disagree with me now, I only hope you will carry your outrage about voter suppression on to our future battles. The rigging of elections, the shutting down of the civil justice system, the weakening of the legislative branch and the construction of an authoritarian executive branch, all still depend upon the Right Wing effort to limit the counted votes of Americans of all kind. Republicans are pulling up the ladder, but we have our hands on it, and it's our responsibility to pull it back down to the people.



Display:


It was a cooked up issue to get the mob (2.00 / 3)

to act mobbish.  No wonder you smelled something.

They are registering voters for the GE.  That's all.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 08:57:19 PM EST

Except. (2.00 / 2)

Repeatedly, they've been admonished by states and by voter complaints about (a) registering voters for the general after primary deadlines and before the primary election, and (b) calling anonymously.  They vowed to fix the second, and didn't.

Moreover, add the problem (at least in NC, dunno which other states) of contacting registered voters with a phone script that made them believe they were registered, and you've got something with very bad effects in NC, however well-intended.

I do not buy the ties to the Clinton campaign or accusations of a deliberate scheme, but I do believe WVWV was grossly negligent at best, and major remedies are needed and still available.


by Adam B on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except. (2.00 / 1)

The original post is quite disingenuous, and a bit disturbing.

Take issue with the reaction to WVWV's involvement if you will: although they've been warned about similar action in other states being potentially illegal, the full story hasn't come out yet, and I agree we should avoid a rush to judgment.

But to compare those who claim WVWV are trying to suppress the vote with those who killed and murdered to suppress the vote in the past is quite wide of the mark. The post basically insinuates that those who want to protect voters in this instance are similar to past murderers.


by vadasz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 04:02:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except. (none / 0)

Again, I am not convinced that WVWV was trying to suppress the vote, but these tactics may have inadvertently had such an effect.


by Adam B on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:23:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good response, Adam. (none / 0)

Responsible people need to speak up when false charges are made, no matter which side it affects.


by TomP on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:48:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a cooked up issue to get the mob (none / 0)

Then why would they do it after the registration deadline has passed?


by Kiku on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:55:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 3)

Thanks for the diary, Glenn. One thing that disturbs me about this episode is that it is too similar to the voter fraud prosecutions at the heart of the U.S. Attorney scandal. The Republicans use legal action as a tactic against voter registration drives, the expenses of defending against frivolous charges wastes resources that could have gone to registering under-served voters. The Obama's campaign's involvement, pushing the story to reporters before getting the facts and when they employ the same phone vendors as WVWV, is far too reminiscent of the Republican voter suppression through attrition strategy.


by souvarine on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:00:37 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 3)

sadly you should have seen the mob mentality here yesterday from your fellow BO supporters sharpening their knives against HRC as suggested by your candidates campaign.  this was the exact same reaction to passportgate.  when it turned out that the evidence didnt support the innuendoes - it became strangely silent.  since you take this issue seriously, maybe you should think about where your comrades behavior stems.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:02:36 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression (2.00 / 1)

that was last week, he's made a new pledge to quit trying to smear Hillary and to speak with his own voice, whatever that is. That's why he came out against the tax holiday. That is what he thinks, that you ought not take little steps to the goal if those little steps aren't going to solve the whole thing. this is good for his supporters to know, he's basically saying not much will get accomplished if he's prez.  he can't go for true universal coverage, he's decided it's impossible, and he won't give a tax holiday because that won't solve the bigger picture. but it would be nice to demonstrate that we can trade tax breaks, oil tax breaks for driver tax breaks, sounds like a nice principle to demonstrate to me.  good thing he's tanking, we need someone who'll reverse those bush policies and get some cleaning done.  


by anna shane on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression (none / 0)

So, to you, Obama will be no different than Bush....?  Well, no wonder you are a Clinton supporter... if I thought that way, I would be afraid of his Presidency too..

Thankfully, he would reverse many, if not all, of Bush's harmful policies...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression (none / 0)

why did you think I said that? What in my post lead you to think that?  He'd be okay, she'll be over the top great.  Bush is the worst president in history, to be no better than Bush Barack would need a lobotomy. To be no better than McCain he'd need to be in a coma.  


by anna shane on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:30:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression (none / 0)

the tax holiday is a scam pure and simple. Would I mind if it passed, no, because I drive a lot and it would save me money. That being said, the people who are pushing for it aren't doing it to be helpful they are doing it to improve their odds in November... I would much rather here about investigating the price gouging by Exxon and company. I would much rater here about synthetic fuel and bio-fuels. I would much rather here about long term fixes than a tax holiday that will save people less than 5% on their fuel purchases over the summer.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression (none / 0)

that's Obama's way of looking at it, but I see it as a great idea, to take some of the tax breaks from the oil companies and put them into the drivers who they cheat.  it's a fun idea, and hurts no one, and may lead to a change in thinking, from the bottom up.  I don't agree with everything she proposes but this is pure fun.  


by anna shane on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression (none / 0)

I am all for taking back some of the obscene profits from the oil companies. I just don't think this is the way to do it.

I don't agree with Obama on everything or Clinton on everything. I think they are both excellent Democrats though. I just wish more people here believed that you didn't have to hate one of the candidates to support the other.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:59:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression (none / 0)

One of the problems with the holiday tax is that there is no control over the cost of gas.  So, following economic policies, making gas cheaper will drive up demand, driving up the price, and there will be no savings.

It's basically just a different way to get the same money that sounds like a tax break to us, but it doesn't do anything.

That's who Obama's plan is better, it focuses on getting the cost of gas down with real measures like better fuel efficiency and alternative fuels.


by Kiku on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:24:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression (none / 0)

that's what Obama says, but I'm not low information enough for him.  Gas stations compete for local customers, and they charge around the same because they have a profit over cost that doesn't vary much, so they can't undercut each other by much. It's stupid to think that they'd get together and agree on price fixing over the summer.  Price fixing is against the law?  Or maybe Barack doesn't know that and he'll introduce legislation to ban price fixing?  LOL


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:37:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 1)

The knives are out on both sides...  mob mentality rules everywhere in the blogosphere right now.  

Neither side owns the patent on bad behavior...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:15:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 1)

i dont disagree that passions cause people to say well - excessive things - but yesterday was unacceptable.  see the last sentence of my previous comment to glenn and ask yourself the same thing.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is the type of (2.00 / 1)

bullshit issue that Obama was decrying last week, yet his campaign hyped up.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:05:41 PM EST

Re: This is the type of (2.00 / 2)

Given the history of suppressing votes in this country, it is by no means a BS issue.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is the type of (2.00 / 2)

Voter suppression is not a bullshit issue.  The Obama campaign reaction, to pander and try to paint Hillary as screwing with the voters is bullshit.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is the type of (none / 0)

Wasn't the Atty General investigating this?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:37:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 1)

the silver lining is that dem's will have to organize at each local level to help each voter get the identification they need, and get them to the polls and have poll watchers to help. There has always been voter suppression, it's now in the open, and our new party leadership (when we sack the hacks) will need to work with local organizers and make it happen. We'll then know who's homeless, or who has to move all the time, if they belong to our party we'll be looking out for them. it's weird but if we do this correctly we can have a stronger party than ever. I think the supreme court may have made a very big mistake.  With all the new activists each candidate including John Edwards has brought into the debate, we can do this and have a stronger and fairer democracy.  The ruling sucks, but when they give you lemons they should know you just might make lemonade.


by anna shane on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:09:15 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

It's certainly worth investigating, particularly since there were complaints filed against this group in other states.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:10:18 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

According to the Virginia State Police:

No charges will be placed against the organization, as neither the statewide phone solicitations nor mass mailings violate state law.

Secretaries of State, especially Republican ones like AZ SoS Jan Brewer, always complain about these drives because they make registrars do more work. In Wisconsin the SoS misunderstood the point of the drive and complained because registrations were happening after the primary deadline. Michigan complained about the increased workload of having to deal with the response to a mailing to 380,000 unregistered voters. Florida complained because the mailer stated that you had to comply with Florida rules to vote. Arkansas complained about "needless labor for office employees."

This cursory check of the "complaints filed in 11 states" shows that these are the normal mixups of any large scale voter registration effort. A close look at most of Facing South's claims quickly demonstrates that they are fallacious.

Voter suppression in the south is a serious problem, but the bigger problem is the distrust these kinds of trumped-up fraud charges generate against legitimate voter registration drives. Convincing people who are not registered that they should register and that their vote will be counted is the real barrier we face today.


by souvarine on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:40:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

In Wisconsin the SoS misunderstood the point of the drive and complained because registrations were happening after the primary deadline.
How do you think the people who thought they were registering for the primary felt?


by Adam B on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:43:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

Since they had already missed the primary registration deadline I imagine they were relieved to at least be registered for the general. I know I'm glad to have a bunch of new registrants in Wisconsin from under-served populations.


by souvarine on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:51:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

Except that Wisconsin allows in-person registration on Election Day, which means that if they mailed in forms thinking they were registered for the primary, they'd show up on primary day and be turned away; and if they thought it was for the general, they were falsely dissuaded from bringing their paperwork to register for the primary on site. Link


by Adam B on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

It would help if you honestly represented the documents you link to. Wisconsin voters were not "turned away", as the document states:

Elections Division Administrator Nat Robinson advised that voters whose mail-in registrations are late will have to register again in order to vote on Tuesday.

"For Wisconsinites who intended to register by mail, the form had to have been postmarked twenty days before the election," Robinson said. "Otherwise they must register in the clerk's office or at the polling place on Election Day."

"We have received a large number of registrations that will not be in the state database by Tuesday morning," Robinson added. "Fortunately, those people who arrive at their polling places assuming they are already registered can still register just before voting."



by souvarine on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:13:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

They can register at the polling place if they have a WI driver's license; otherwise, you'd need to dig up some other document verifying identity and residence.  But if they didn't know that ...


by Adam B on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

God knows this is a time for passion. With regard to this issue, though, I'm not sure it helps to keep firing away at one campaign while we're seeking to responsibly turn down the heat overall.

Just my thought. Someone very near and dear to me is in the other room right now passionately disagreeing with my take on all this, so I get it. Nonetheless, I guy can dream.....


by Glenn Smith on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:11:41 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 1)

I just don't see the connection between receiving an effectively anonymous recorded phone message (no organization identified) telling someone about registering to vote, and "voter suppression".  Who in their right mind would think, "well, I guess I'm not registered so I won't vote"?  Same goes for receiving a voter registration form in the mail.

I can see confusion amongst some of the elderly.  I can also see the extra work this would generate on the part of county registration officials - having to field calls from concerned voters.

I've even read some of the diary entries on DailyKos about this, yet I haven't seen anything about how WVWV's efforts have targeted African Americans.  The argument seems to be "we know AA's have been targeted for suppression the most, therefore this "suppression" effot must be targeting AA's even though we don't have evidence for it".

From what I've seen so far, this is nothing more than an echo chamber story across a couple (mostly pro-Obama) internet blogs.


by Makarov on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:32:41 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

Agreed.  A campaign targeting African American voters in order to suppress them would be reprehensible.  And that's what made people so upset here.  Apart from the, you know, targeting African Americans part, or the, hmm, suppressing votes part... but if we keep digging, there's sure to be an Outrage Pony somewhere!


by FlipYrWhig on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:28:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 2)

WHAT THE FRAK?

"It smells like the Ocoee fire to me."

What are you doing making a comment like that? Could you make a more inflammatory comment? Do you expect anyone to take you seriously after that line, Glenn? Or take this site seriously after putting up a comment like that on the main page?

Disagree those of us asking (what I feel are perfectly) legitimate questions about an event the NC Attorney General is investigating as a Felony. But saying " It smells like the Ocoee fire to me."

I'm not sure who that's more offensive to. Me or those who suffered and died in Ocoee.

Shame on you.  No one said, "string 'em up" no one said "Hillary is to blame" in the diaries that went up. There may have been a missing "allegedly" here and there when referring to the Clinton campaign or its backers, and maybe some people went over the line. (It's not like that line isn't well trodden in diaries about Wright or Ayers), but all the diaries, mine own included, went to great lengths to back up the idea there was something worth looking at there WITH FACTS. The innuendo is understandable seeing as these are commentary diaries, not news stories, and that WVWV hid their own freaking involvement.

As Democrats we have to be extra vigilant. I heard about the Lamont Williams thing before, and was totally baffled how "Lamont Williams" would be the only identifier to a WVWV call. Or why they didn't say their name. Or why they didn't say "general election." Or why the rebuffed earlier attempts to fix their mistakes in NC. Or why they made the same mistakes in other states, had that brought to their attention, and still kept going through NC.

In fact, they're on record as expressing "confusion at the confusion" in other states, which, at the very least, shows they KNEW something was up. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt till the cows come home, but this stuff stinks, a felony is being investigated, there are clear ties to a candidate, the calls appear to be racialized at least in the early reports that said African Americans were the recipients.

They may do great work. No doubt. But so did Spitzer. Given the history of voter suppression among African Americans, when you mess up as ROYALLY as WVWV did, the onus is, fairly or not, on them to show it wasn't intentional. And there's no shame in making sure that's done. Especially as Democrats who hold our party to a standard far higher than vote supressing Republicans.

Somehow, posing these LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS makes us the equivilent of a lynch mob? Are you kidding me?

This is the kind of BS I expect from O'Reilly, for whom all enemies are Nazis or fascists. But foer you to go there -- hell, go hang out with Jonah Goldberg -- that's the realm your trodding here.

In my diary, I not only offered that I'd apologize for any innuendo if it turns out to be an honest mistake, and I quickly posted WVWV's response when it went up. I'm not alone in that level of responsibility. I can promise I never saw anything like that while Obama was being tarred as all-but saying Wright's rants himself. Questions about whether Obama repudiates every controversial thing a man who is not himself said is apparently okay here, but asking questions about a potential vote supression felony is the equivilent of lynching???

Glenn, please please please do an update. I don't care if you're an Obama supporter. I don't care if your David Frakkin' Axelrod. If he said " It smells like the Ocoee fire to me" I'd demand an apology even faster, since the guy must know better. I hope you do to. I've seen some questionable things on this site. But this takes the cake.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:34:02 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

The language of your comment kinda supports my concerns about a kind of anger I have seen in the reaction to this. I fully and obviously support the bringing of this to public attention, it's not the insistence that we get to the bottom of it and hold responsible anyone that needs to be held responsible.

It is the extreme tone of anger. Very seldom does any good come of that kind of anger. And anger certainty has a smell. I stick with the metaphor. But I'll add, if it turns out all the suspicions are confirmed about WVWV, it will be very, very difficult for me to control my own anger.


by Glenn Smith on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:56:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

See, when I hit send I said "he's going to turn this around on me," and wished I'd gone for Disdainful Detachment or Catskills Comic instead.

Still; I won't deny there's a deep pull of "gotcha" for me in this. Which isn't so much a "building it up" to have it conciously hurt Clinton is that I've reached a point of Totally Fully Believing it's something she'd do.

Now, that's fucked up on my part, and I feel the game board was fundimentally changed in the last month. It is, in part, because the "Kitchen Sink" strategy working -- that's truly frustrating on both cynical and idealistic levels -- but because, once I heard the Ayers issue being brought up in a debate the same time as Clinton had begun pushing it -- I kinda felt, "okay, we're going there now, huh."

It's hard to maintain the balance once you give up your precious flower to a candidate. I see the people pushing Ayers as being as credible as people pushing the Clinton/CIA/Cocaine stories. I feel that Obama gets punished for telling the truth, as with the 'Bittergate' thing. They just seem so small, when there's really not stuff to throw back because I don't feel any need to care about a coffee pot or whether Bill Clinton acted like an ass again. He's always been an ass and that was part of his awesome. Stop being surprised by it. I digress.

Anyway, then this story comes along that, yes, may be "confirming" my prejudice with lots of help from the imagination -- but contains a fundimental kernal that, as Democrat partisans, we should be most vigilant about, mainly civil rights, voting rights, etc.

There is an awful lot of incompetance you need to buy to buy the "whoops, sorry" explaination. And yet, to see that dismissed out of hand is naturally frustrating. When Bob Johnson's post got knocked off the 'rec' list here that just kicked it up to eleven. And then when the issue is addressed, it's done in a context in which those of us concerned are now a lynch mob.

Kablowie!


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:31:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

I really have no special access to patience or anything, and don't much like my own tone on this, which is a little too above it all. Sorry for that.

I share your frustrations over the last month. I guess I'm asking for a breather. I swear if the suspicions are true no one will be louder in his condemnation.

Also, if more exchanges were like yours, even beginning by letting your anger speak first, but coming down to an articulate and persuasive expression of authentic concern, well, I'd have never pontificated in the first damn place. I hope I can hold myself to the standard I just mentioned, because I have failed to do so many times in the past.

Ask the guy who cut me off in traffic just earlier today.

Thanks.


by Glenn Smith on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:59:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

Well, the beer's on me if you're ever in central Jersey. Thank you.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 2)

Glenn, you have got to be kidding!!!  Your issue is with the level of anger?!  Whatever else you do in your life, please don't become a mental health professional.  You're essentially advocating that people not be angry over this, and you have appointed yourself as judge of when anger can happen and how much is appropriate.  Apparently you have a highly advanced smell test that everyone else should abide by.  You are too much!

Nothing in the anger of those offended by the WVWV campaign comes even close to Ocoee, and I am incensed at your comparison.  I don't see or hear lynchings and mob violence of any sort.  Or have I missed the blog organizing the torches, pitchforks, shotguns, nooses, as well as the mob meeting place from where everyone will move on to the homes of the officers and staff of the WVWV?

The anger that you criticize is so often the anger that motivates positive social change when a person or people can no longer tolerate an unbearable situation.  If that anger is directed into pushing for oversight and investigation and ultimately legal action of either civil or criminal nature, good!  Then it has been redirected into positive action, not into negative action such as violent mob mentalities.

You say, "if it turns out all the suspicions are confirmed about WVWV, it will be very, very difficult for me to control my own anger."  I find that comment disingenuous because it is the very anger that you criticize that is pushing forward efforts to investigate those suspicions.  When I step back and look at the big picture of all that you are saying, it appears that you are saying that you don't want anyone else's anger to force you to turn more than a blind eye to what has happened.

I don't think the smoke that you are smelling is from Ocoee; I think what you're smelling is at best negligent but harmful actions and at worst criminal efforts resulting in voter suppression.  Your reaction to the smoke that you smell is to blame the fire alarm.

Lastly, I have been angry with and in disagreement with postings on MyDD before, but this is the first and only time that I have been morally offended by one.  Please, let's bring the quality of the postings back up!  The offensive and poorly constructed analogies in this one were too much!


by Phonatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:04:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

Well, sorry you take offense. I've been working against voter suppression for a long time, looking for the kind of passion that's stirred up in this instance, but not seeing much of it.

I still maintain that actions taken in anger are often not very smart. Didn't say we shouldn't feel angry. Anyway, I'm not a mental health care professional, and I'm no more mentally healthy in this regard than anyone else.

I just get really edgy around angry crowds. And this was looking to me like an angry crowd.

I guess it's taken a very tough, dirty and hard-fought primary to get us all this stirred up.

So, I will tone down my analogies if you will promise to fire people up (passionately, not just angrily) about voter suppression when we don't have our primary passions so tuned up.


by Glenn Smith on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:51:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're understand. (none / 0)

I want to thaank you for your thoughtful words. I said something along these lines down the threaad, but I didn't put them as well as you did.
In the U.S. there is a disgusting tendency to trivialize or even discount altogether the lynch mob atrocities that happened up until only 40 or so years ago. It isn't ancient history; there are people alive today who took part in lynching themselves, as well as people whose friends or family got strung up or burned or hacked or shot to death by lynch mobs.
There is no conscienable way to copare something as harmless as a few badly chosen words or overeagerness to believe that the Clinton campaign might have ties to black voter suppression to a fucking lynching or a race riot. I'm sorry about the naughty word, but really, if this doesn't call for a "fuck" or two, then I don't know what would.
ооо
by Mumphrey on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:31:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

They should not have sent the material out until after the primary, because they should have known it would only cause confusion.  Also, this group was told to not do robo calls.  They were told the same thing in VA, and promised not to do any more robo calls, and they knew it was illegal in NC.  The NC AG is looking into the robo calls to see how they were handled, and this group should call everyone of the voters they made the robo calls to and tell them that they don't have to wait for the mail to register to vote.  Telling people you can't register until you get somethng in the mail to me is fraud.  I don't know if that is disenfranchising voters, but it is close to it.  In defense of this group I don't think they meant to disenfranchise anyone on purpose.  I think this group put their faith in the wrong people to make the calls.  


by Spanky on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:42:07 PM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

Telling people you can't register until you get somethng in the mail to me is fraud

How about telling people they can register by putting something in the mail?  Is that fraud to you?  Because that's what the calls said.  Nothing about "can't" or "until."  Cripes.


by FlipYrWhig on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:31:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)


There is opportunistic vote disenfranchisement, which is a horrible abuse.

But there is systematic disenfranchisement of many more voters (about 5 million) by the various ex-felon disenfranchisement laws.

The laws to create the latter are often exploited to achieve the first.  There's a lot more work needed to minimize and repeal these laws.


by killjoy on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:25:17 AM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (2.00 / 1)

Let me see if I understand the analogy between criticizing WVWV and lynching black voters.

WVWV has

1) repeatedly engaged in deceptive and misleading advertising that would lead a reasonable person to question whether he or she was registered to vote;

2) violated North Carolina election law by not identifying itself or providing a contact number in a robo call;

3) aimed such calls at African-American communities (according to NPR);

4) in violation of fundamental philanthropic conflict-of-interest principles, directed substantial portions of its tax-free donations toward corporations that are owned by or which employ members of its board of directors and their families; and

5) a president who served as Bill Clinton's deputy  political director, an executive director who was a Clinton pollster, one board member who was Bill Clinton's chief of staff and another who was a member of the Clinton/Gore transition team, a leadership team member who is the current campaign manager for Hillary Clinton, another who has done nearly $1 million in printing for the Clinton campaign, and another who was Bill Clinton's advisor for legislative affairs.

And according to you, Glenn, pointing out these things is like lynching?

You're right about one thing: the WVWV's voter suppression operation is sophisticated.  They don't burn people, they merely sow confusion and doubt about registration status in the African American community.  They violated North Carolina law.  They persisted in their efforts after similar "mistakes" were called to their attention in other states.  They take people's charitable donations and use them to pay for-profit contractors owned or controlled by their own leadership.

That's not lynching, but it sure is sophisticated.

http://framed.typepad.com/framed/2008/05 /voter-suppressi.html


by jftrumm on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:24:19 AM EST

Re: Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy (none / 0)

As I've said, I'm for discussion of the issues. It's the extreme anger that concerns me.

And something I should have put in the post:  where is the anger and attention on the recent Supreme Court decision upholding Indiana's voter i.d. law? This will ultimately disenfranchise millions of Americans.

But we are spending all our time attacking WVWV, who may in the end deserve condemnation, true.

What happened to perspective? Anger makes it very hard to maintain. And, by the way, there is no moral analogy with "lynching," as you say. There is an analogy with a developing group mentality in which individuals are stoking one another's anger to a point that perspective is lost, objects of the anger are dehumanized. Too many mistakes happen under such circumstances.


by Glenn Smith on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:43:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I've had race on my mind the last few days. (2.00 / 1)

And I think you're dead wrong about this.
After watching the way the Clinton campaign has behaved over the last few months, ever so subtly using American suspicion of black Americans to theier benefit--but always, as I say subtly, so subtly that they can plausibly deny that that was what they were doing--I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. This is an organization with some real ties to the Clintons, and I at least believe they were doing what they did willfully. I don't know whether anybody working directly for t he campaign knew, much less Bill or Hillary Clinton themselves, but I think the organization did what it did specifically to lessen the black vote in North Carolina. I think the anger and suspicion is in no way misplaced, and anger and mistrust and even intemperate words are in no way anything like the atrocity you described that happened in Florida in 1920.
I want to say as emphatically as I can that comparing some mean things that bloggers might say about this WVWV thing to a lynch mob burning down the houses of 500 black American citizens is about as an offensive and cavalier a trivialization of the suffering that black Americans have dealt with through our history as I can think of. Nobody has strung any of these WVWV people up from trees or set them on fire or burned their houses down or in any other way terrorized them. It's like comparing the plight of some white guy who who thinks affirmative action is why he got passed over for a promotion that went to a black guy to the Tulsa race riots of 1921.
As an Obama backer, I don't think you meant to be offensive, but this really is out of line. I hope you'll think twice before making a comparison like thaat again.
I know I'll get piled on for saying this but I really don't care. It's true.
ооо
by Mumphrey on Fri May 02, 2008 at 11:00:38 AM EST

my thoughts exactly. (none / 0)

my god, people, has tact and sensitivity left the American Public?!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:34:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary knows what she done (none / 0)

and Hillary will pay for it.

Hillary, for the last time, will you put down the goddamn knife, we're running an election here!?!

That said, Hillary's opposition to fair elections that may support her ideological opponents has been noted months ago.

This provides a rather hesitant footnote to things that she's already done, and with far clumsier handling.

The good news, here, is that we don't need to tell the American Public what Hill's done. Maybe that's bad news, if you're a Hill supporter.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:33:40 PM EST


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